The central message of the Bible: “Jesus’s death for our sins” is pretty clear to me, and is not open to misinterpretation.  The people in the church I visited simply did not do their research.

No, the beauty of the Bible is its continuity despite barriers of time, person, language, and location.  No one knew as they wrote, that they had to “fit” the words to work with other books in a compilation.  And yet there is a harmony.

Seemed pretty organized to me.  👏

[quote author=“creejoh”]I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.  But yes, now that I look at it, there is so much controversial (by this, I mean contradictory, to itself and to science) stuff written in the old testament that is really really hard to grasp.  I really am not an expert, but I think that there is a lot more that its trying to say to us than just what it says, face value.  Thats just my belief.  I think there are many many misinterpretations, however, or you can call them false teachings.  Its late I cant really organize my thoughts.  But, Ill try my best to use this as an example:

No where in the Bible does it say that you should hate homosexuals.  People are completely ignorant when it comes to this.  Yes, in the Bible it does call the act of homosexuality a sin.  The whole philosophy behind this is “love the person, hate the sin”.  We are all sinners, everyone sins.  In the new testament it says that Jesus said to the people ready to stone a woman adulterer, “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.” And everyone dropped their stones.  So those “GOD HATES FAGS” sign holding people kinda represent that.  I think those are the real people that give Christians/ Christianity a bad name.  So yeah…. that got a little preachy, I apologize.

Anyway, I’m not here to condemn or attack anyone, or their beliefs, its stupid, ignorant and regressive.  We all believe different things, and its important that we all respect that.  I think that respect and love are two of the most important things that people are taught to follow.  And the end for now.

I agree with what you’re saying.. but that’s exactly the point i’m making, that people take certain things way too far.  And that may not have been the best contradiction to bring up.. but believe me there are others.  My point was really just how can you take it to the point that you actually hate people?  Like the point of the bible shouldn’t be to instill feelings of digust/hate for others but rather to strive for tolerance and forgiveness for others.  I don’t know.. I’d rather stick to the New Testament for the most part.. we had to read all of Genesis and Exodus and some of the stories in there I personally wouldn’t base my morals and life on.

^^^

The matter of faith in the Bible, its consistency, and people’s mis-interpretatitive use of it are three different things.  I was focusing on how you say there are inconsistencies, when there really are none.

[quote author=“HectorGearLive”]^^^

The matter of faith in the Bible, its consistency, and people’s mis-interpretatitive use of it are three different things.  I was focusing on how you say there are inconsistencies, when there really are none.

But there are.. I mean.. unless you think the world being created twice in two different ways not to be an inconsistency..

yeah it’s true it’s consistency and mis-interpretation are two different things and I shouldn’t be intermingling them.. but i feel that sometimes mis-interpretation can be the result of inconsistencies.

I like how I don’t have much to say in this conversation because I don’t believe any of it. The bible was a book, kind of a crappy read if you ask me. I’ll stick to my Steinbeck and Graham Greene for good fiction.

Good luck with that in the After Life.  :D

Spice,  not sure if you read what I posted on that double-creation topic:

[quote author=“HectorGearLive”][quote author=“Andreux”]Well, for starters, the world was created twice, LOL 😛

That is completely not true.  N(  Genesis Chapter 1 is the account of creation, and chapter 2 describes the creation of the first humans and the Garden of Eden.

That is not what the Bible says at all.  Jesus was pretty straightforward about this.  Why do you think people crucified him?

John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I wasn’t saying what the bible says. I’m saying what I say.

If there’s a God that will punish people to eternal damnation just because they have different beliefs…Then what kind of God is that?

[quote author=“HectorGearLive”]Spice,  not sure if you read what I posted on that double-creation topic:

[quote author=“HectorGearLive”][quote author=“Andreux”]Well, for starters, the world was created twice, LOL 😛

That is completely not true.  N(  Genesis Chapter 1 is the account of creation, and chapter 2 describes the creation of the first humans and the Garden of Eden.

yeah and that’s not really accurate.. for example in Chap. 2 God creates animals (for the second time) and their creation is after the creation of humans as it states that Adam named the animals as God created them.. this is in direct contradiction with Chap. 1 in which animals are clearly created before humans… there’s more stuff but a lot of it you could try to argue that it’s retelling Chap 1 in more detail so I’ll leave that as a main discrepancy.

The reason for these discrepancies is because they came from two different sources and were, in a manner of speaking, thrown together.  We have the second story coming from the J source aka the Yahwist source which was derived from oral story telling.. and the 1st Chap coming from the P source aka Priestly source.. the priestly source is more concerned with the order of religion (using a technique of showing god separating and dividing) rather than the more fairy tale like feel of the 2nd chap.

Genesis 2
19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.
But for Adam [1] no suitable helper was found.

[quote author=“Acrylic”]
I wasn’t saying what the bible says. I’m saying what I say

And people should believe you over the Bible…?  No thanks.  And to answer your other question about punishment:

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in through Christ Jesus our Lord.

[quote author=“HectorGearLive”][quote author=“Acrylic”]
I wasn’t saying what the bible says. I’m saying what I say

And people should believe you over the Bible…?  No thanks.

*sigh*

Dude. I wasn’t saying for anyone to believe me. It’s my beliefs. It’s waht I like to believe, and everything.

This is because: I hate it when people try to convert people to other religions. I say : “Let people believe what they want to believe in.”

I’ve never once tried to convert someone, nor would I ever try to.

And I sometimes have doubts in the bible. Its just a book. I have my faith in God, and I have my morals and everything. I will teach my kids the same, and all that. Some stuff of what the Bible says is pure ######## in my opinion.

Like, I said before, I’m Catholic, but I’m not one of those ####### Christians forcing you to their beliefs and getting mad for not agreeing with them.

Also, if God and/or Jesus wants to punish me to eternal hell for what I believe is right, then let it be. I believe in God, and I believe in Jesus. I also believe in what’s right.

-My 2 cents.

Very well then.  I will say this one last thing, for anyone who’s wondering. 

The reason people try to convert you to Christianity is because, if you’re going by what the Scriptures say, it’s the only way to make it to God.  In their eyes, they’re doing you a favor.

Matthew 22
3He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.
4"Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’
5"But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business.

[quote author=“HectorGearLive”]Very well then.  I will say this one last thing, for anyone who’s wondering. 

The reason people try to convert you to Christianity is because, if you’re going by what the Scriptures say, it’s the only way to make it to God.  In their eyes, they’re doing you a favor.

Matthew 22
3He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.
4"Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’
5"But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business.

😛 Hector, I’m gonna translate that however way I want ‘cause someone else said I could. LOL jk 😊

[quote author=“HectorGearLive”]Genesis 2
19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.
But for Adam [1] no suitable helper was found.

You seem to have a different version as me that makes it seem more that it’s not two different instances..

in mine i have “Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper as his partner.” So out of the ground the Lord God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them;... ”  This makes it clear that God created Animals in response to the creation of Humans.. and I also have another Bible that states the same thing.  I’ve learned this twice from two different literature courses in two different universities.  It is widely taught that there are 2 contradicting stories of creation.  Of course you’re looking at this all in a view of protecting the views of your religions, so you probably wouldn’t see it as it is taught in a lit class.  I don’t want to get into a whole big thing because I think it’s obvious that we’re not going to convince eachother of our views.

what makes you so interested in what the bible says?  why should you care what some book says.  just because it tells you to believe it and other people have told you to do so, why do you?  why would some almighty being randomly create the universe and then demand that one of his millions of species worship him or he’ll put them in some fiery painful torture chamber for eternity.  does your god have serious underlying emotional issues?  or is it just your refusal to wake up and think?

Good luck with that in the After Life.  :D

It’s a good thing I’ll be dead.

Anyone here believe in either a) Hinduism or b) buddhism?

😛 I find it funny that sweet jesus has his screen name and doesn’t follow da Bible

Does sweet jesus believe in any type of Supreme Being anyway? Maybe he’s Buddhist or something :mischeif: (And there’s nothing wrong with that if he is—to be honest, I have a strange view of religion which I refuse to divulge :lol: )

[quote author=“Andreux”]:P I find it funny that sweet jesus has his screen name and doesn’t follow da Bible

Does sweet jesus believe in any type of Supreme Being anyway? Maybe he’s Buddhist or something :mischeif: (And there’s nothing wrong with that if he is—to be honest, I have a strange view of religion which I refuse to divulge :lol: )

haha, don’t get me wrong with the name. It’s an exclamation I use frequently so I figured I would save myself the time by just making it my screen name.  In case you’re wondering, I’m atheist; have been since I was in catholic grade school.  It’s not that I have problems with people’s beliefs, it’s just that the whole God thing seemed way too simple and non-conforming to incredibly complex issues of life, both social and scientific. I only believe what I can see and study.

[quote author=“sweet jesus”][quote author=“Andreux”]:P I find it funny that sweet jesus has his screen name and doesn’t follow da Bible

Does sweet jesus believe in any type of Supreme Being anyway? Maybe he’s Buddhist or something :mischeif: (And there’s nothing wrong with that if he is—to be honest, I have a strange view of religion which I refuse to divulge :lol: )

haha, don’t get me wrong with the name. It’s an exclamation I use frequently so I figured I would save myself the time by just making it my screen name.  In case you’re wondering, I’m atheist; have been since I was in catholic grade school.  It’s not that I have problems with people’s beliefs, it’s just that the whole God thing seemed way too simple and non-conforming to incredibly complex issues of life, both social and scientific. I only believe what I can see and study.

I was raised Catholic myself, and it seems that every Catholic I’ve ever met is either one extreme or the other—hardcore Catholic or hardcore atheist :lol:

I, however, found some sort of happy medium for myself 😊

[quote author=“Andreux”][quote author=“sweet jesus”][quote author=“Andreux”]:P I find it funny that sweet jesus has his screen name and doesn’t follow da Bible

Does sweet jesus believe in any type of Supreme Being anyway? Maybe he’s Buddhist or something :mischeif: (And there’s nothing wrong with that if he is—to be honest, I have a strange view of religion which I refuse to divulge :lol: )

haha, don’t get me wrong with the name. It’s an exclamation I use frequently so I figured I would save myself the time by just making it my screen name.  In case you’re wondering, I’m atheist; have been since I was in catholic grade school.  It’s not that I have problems with people’s beliefs, it’s just that the whole God thing seemed way too simple and non-conforming to incredibly complex issues of life, both social and scientific. I only believe what I can see and study.

I was raised Catholic myself, and it seems that every Catholic I’ve ever met is either one extreme or the other—hardcore Catholic or hardcore atheist :lol:

Well, I’m not either. I just…am in the middle. I believe in God, and all that. I dont gotta explain it again, since I did in one of my above posts.

Well heres the thing.  I believe it is God-breathed words transcribed by many people over the years.  The word of God.  Its not that people tell me to believe it, I came to that conclusion myself.  I could go in depth, but that would be ridiculous.  I went through my questioning period.  I went through a period where I didn’t care about what the Bible said, and that I thought I could take parts of other religions to form my own, that was a 2 week period… haha.  Anyway, through my thinking, certain events, talking to other people about God, and realizing my own struggle to believe, I came to the conclusion that The Bible is truth, and that God does exist.

In the Bible, it says God created man in his own image.  Man lived in direct contact with God until he gave into temptation, and ate the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not making him not innocent anymore, because he had knowledge of whats right and whats wrong.  This was the fall of man, the great separation from man and God.  Its not that He created us to throw us into hell, its that He loves us, but we are separated from Him.  Now he gave us the way to Him with Jesus Christ and faith in Him.  It says that repentence and faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, and that we believe in him and that he died for our sins, is what can bridge the gap between man and God.  Im just explaining this to you, because it seems to me you haven’t actually read the book that you are criticizing.

So thats what I believe, but please don’t write off all believers as people who don’t think.  If you have any questions, I’d be glad to answer them, because Im sure I have asked a lot of those same quesions myself.