FEAR FEAR FEAR!! 9/11!!! CHENEY!! TERRORISM!!! RED ALERT!!! ORANGE ALERT!!! WMD!!! AHHH!!!

i guarantee we’ll never see green or blue alert. keep the proles on their toes and make sure they believe big brother protects them.

I agree, what has he really done in four years other than having to do with war, terrorist, or the “tax relief check” he sent out?

That tax cut was so expected.  Just like everyone’s expecting Bin Laden to suddenly emerge from a cave somewhere within the next week.

I am interested in knowing exactly what about Bush people hate.

Please be specific, i.e. don’t say:

He’s a liar.

I’ll just end up asking you what he lied about.

Well, how about explaining why you support him?  That would help with starting a better argument.

Yeah, explain to me how my family’s rising health care costs, tuition fees, and drops in income are helping us?  Try to explain why I have friends going to war and coming back saying they were lacking supplies, armor, and took pay cuts for an unfounded war?  Why is my generation and my future children looking at a gross deficit that we won’t pay off for decades?  Answer these questions and tell me why you’re voting for Bush because you obviously aren’t middle class.

Here is one I’d like you to defend.

Explain how the average income in the united states has dropped $15k since Bush has taken office. Difficulty = stop blaming 9/11 for everything.

I’ve lost 3 jobs in as many years because of tax breaks offered by the government to big business for sending jobs overseas.

Please rationalize this for me. I’m listening.

I, for one, would like answers that do not involve any form of the word “terror”, “terrorism”, or “9/11”.  The fact of the matter is, none of those things really have anything to do with the real issues at hand.  I’m also sick of Bush using it as a way to make people afraid.

[quote author=“jbeana”]I, for one, would like answers that do not involve any form of the word “terror”, “terrorism”, or “9/11”.  The fact of the matter is, none of those things really have anything to do with the real issues at hand.  I’m also sick of Bush using it as a way to make people afraid.

FEAR FEAR FEAR!! 9/11!!! CHENEY!! TERRORISM!!! RED ALERT!!! ORANGE ALERT!!! WMD!!! AHHH!!!

i guarantee we’ll never see green or blue alert. keep the proles on their toes and make sure they believe big brother protects them.

FEAR FEAR FEAR!! 9/11!!! CHENEY!! TERRORISM!!! RED ALERT!!! ORANGE ALERT!!! WMD!!! AHHH!!!

i guarantee we’ll never see green or blue alert. keep the proles on their toes and make sure they believe big brother protects them.

I agree, what has he really done in four years other than having to do with war, terrorist, or the “tax relief check” he sent out?

I’ll start with this one.

Rising health care costs, tuition fees, and drops in income?

It’s not bush’s fault. Were you happier under Clinton? Hope not!

Friends going to war coming back saying they were lacking supplies, armor, and took pay cuts for an unfunded war?

They should be getting the equipment that they want. Take Kerry for example. Liberals like Kerry are the people who are keeping this from happening. Kerry voted against the $87 billion supplemental. Check out
Project Vote Smart.com to see some of these issues.

Gross deficit that we won’t pay off for decades?

9/11 Remember that?
In 2000 during the final 6 months of the year, the economy started falling (dot com bubble, recession). Then, with 9/11 we realized that we weren’t at all secure. The attacks made the economy fall, they even closed the stock markets for a bit! Airports closed for days. Then, we spent billions more on defense, homeland security and invading Afghanistan. Other issues, such as the Patriot Act have cost us.

[quote author=“ORBJ”]

I’ll start with this one.

Rising health care costs, tuition fees, and drops in income?

It’s not bush’s fault. Were you happier under Clinton? Hope not!

Friends going to war coming back saying they were lacking supplies, armor, and took pay cuts for an unfunded war?

They should be getting the equipment that they want. Take Kerry for example. Liberals like Kerry are the people who are keeping this from happening. Kerry voted against the $87 billion supplemental. Check out
Project Vote Smart.com to see some of these issues.

Gross deficit that we won’t pay off for decades?

9/11 Remember that?
In 2000 during the final 6 months of the year, the economy started falling (dot com bubble, recession). Then, with 9/11 we realized that we weren’t at all secure. The attacks made the economy fall, they even closed the stock markets for a bit! Airports closed for days. Then, we spent billions more on defense, homeland security and invading Afghanistan. Other issues, such as the Patriot Act have cost us.

Maybe I missed it, but I don’t think you addressed ANY of the issuses that sweet Jesus asked you to address. 

For one, we WERE happier under Clinton.  Why?  Because Clinton brought our economy back.  Because millions of new jobs were created under Clinton.  Because Clinton put our budget in a surplus.

Why are we unhappy with Bush?  Because he’s focused on everything BUT the economy.  Because millions of jobs have been lost.  Because he’s racked up the largest deficit this country’s ever seen.  I know you’re going to say that figures have shown that 1.9 million jobs have been created in the past few months, but when you look at the overall picture, it’s still a net loss.

Regarding the funding for military supplies.  Our troops were sent into Iraq without these supplies.  Bush knew exactly what was going on.  He knew that we did not have enough armored tanks, that troops didn’t have enough armored gear to protect them.  It was only later, when he realized his mistake that he tried to fix it.  But by then it was too late.  The fact of the matter is, our troops should not have even been sent to war in the first place if we were not prepared to handle it.  It’s not sufficient enough to say, “Oops, I f****** up.  Let’s hope no one notices.”

Yes, I remember 9/11.  So what?  Do you remember Pearl Harbor?  Roosevelt knew way in advance that it was going to happen, but he let it happen because he wanted an excuse to get America in the war.  9/11?  What of it?  There are reports that we knew this was going to happen, but we ignored the signs.  And don’t give me crap about this being some sort of left-wing conspiracy.  We are not the most powerful nation in the world by being stupid.

With that said, 9/11 was NOT the cause of the economy’s recession.  Closing the stock market for a few days did NOT cause our entire economy to go to crap.  Plus, they closed the market because they were afraid that people would freak out and start doing what they did decades ago before the Great Depression.  We did not need to spend billions on defense, homeland security, invading Afghanistan, etc.  The entire war has been a cover-up for Bush to finish what his daddy couldn’t do in his term in office.  Tell me, why are we still in Afghanistan?  Why are we spending so much time searching for a man that we don’t even know is still alive? 

Furthermore, how did Iraq suddenly get involved?  Because Saddam is a bad bad man?  Because he has weapons of mass destruction?  Let me ask you this.  Why did we actively pursue a man who vehemently denied ever having weapons of mass destruction, biological warfare, etc. when there were other countries (like, oh I don’t know, North Korea) who OPENLY tell us that they have WMD, that they have tested it, and that they will not hesitate to use it on us?

Only after I get a sufficient answer to all those questions will I ever be satisfied that Bush is “doing the right thing.”

Oh, and Patriot Act?  What of it?  You just threw it out there, but you never defended it or opposed it.  I, for one, do not sleep better knowing that the government can play Big Brother.  Ever heard of civil liberties?

[quote author=“jbeana”][quote author=“ORBJ”]

I’ll start with this one.

Rising health care costs, tuition fees, and drops in income?

It’s not bush’s fault. Were you happier under Clinton? Hope not!

Friends going to war coming back saying they were lacking supplies, armor, and took pay cuts for an unfunded war?

They should be getting the equipment that they want. Take Kerry for example. Liberals like Kerry are the people who are keeping this from happening. Kerry voted against the $87 billion supplemental. Check out
Project Vote Smart.com to see some of these issues.

Gross deficit that we won’t pay off for decades?

9/11 Remember that?
In 2000 during the final 6 months of the year, the economy started falling (dot com bubble, recession). Then, with 9/11 we realized that we weren’t at all secure. The attacks made the economy fall, they even closed the stock markets for a bit! Airports closed for days. Then, we spent billions more on defense, homeland security and invading Afghanistan. Other issues, such as the Patriot Act have cost us.

Maybe I missed it, but I don’t think you addressed ANY of the issuses that sweet Jesus asked you to address. 

For one, we WERE happier under Clinton.  Why?  Because Clinton brought our economy back.  Because millions of new jobs were created under Clinton.  Because Clinton put our budget in a surplus.

Why are we unhappy with Bush?  Because he’s focused on everything BUT the economy.  Because millions of jobs have been lost.  Because he’s racked up the largest deficit this country’s ever seen.  I know you’re going to say that figures have shown that 1.9 million jobs have been created in the past few months, but when you look at the overall picture, it’s still a net loss.

Regarding the funding for military supplies.  Our troops were sent into Iraq without these supplies.  Bush knew exactly what was going on.  He knew that we did not have enough armored tanks, that troops didn’t have enough armored gear to protect them.  It was only later, when he realized his mistake that he tried to fix it.  But by then it was too late.  The fact of the matter is, our troops should not have even been sent to war in the first place if we were not prepared to handle it.  It’s not sufficient enough to say, “Oops, I f****** up.  Let’s hope no one notices.”

Yes, I remember 9/11.  So what?  Do you remember Pearl Harbor?  Roosevelt knew way in advance that it was going to happen, but he let it happen because he wanted an excuse to get America in the war.  9/11?  What of it?  There are reports that we knew this was going to happen, but we ignored the signs.  And don’t give me crap about this being some sort of left-wing conspiracy.  We are not the most powerful nation in the world by being stupid.

With that said, 9/11 was NOT the cause of the economy’s recession.  Closing the stock market for a few days did NOT cause our entire economy to go to crap.  Plus, they closed the market because they were afraid that people would freak out and start doing what they did decades ago before the Great Depression.  We did not need to spend billions on defense, homeland security, invading Afghanistan, etc.  The entire war has been a cover-up for Bush to finish what his daddy couldn’t do in his term in office.  Tell me, why are we still in Afghanistan?  Why are we spending so much time searching for a man that we don’t even know is still alive? 

Furthermore, how did Iraq suddenly get involved?  Because Saddam is a bad bad man?  Because he has weapons of mass destruction?  Let me ask you this.  Why did we actively pursue a man who vehemently denied ever having weapons of mass destruction, biological warfare, etc. when there were other countries (like, oh I don’t know, North Korea) who OPENLY tell us that they have WMD, that they have tested it, and that they will not hesitate to use it on us?

Only after I get a sufficient answer to all those questions will I ever be satisfied that Bush is “doing the right thing.”

Oh, and Patriot Act?  What of it?  You just threw it out there, but you never defended it or opposed it.  I, for one, do not sleep better knowing that the government can play Big Brother.  Ever heard of civil liberties?

Oh yes, I now remember one of the reasons I don’t visit here much anymore…highly Liberal..

Where to even start..

Had you payed attention to earlier discussions, we came to an agreement that President’s have little affect on matters of Legislation. Therefore, it is entirely ridiculous to peg the short-comings of our economy on one man. If you want to blame anything, blame the partisan games our politicians have been playing; if anything that is to blame. I have one question though, if you’re going to keep sucking on Michael Moore’s ding-dong, could you tell me if his piss is sweetened by all the donuts he stuffs in his fat little lie-telling mouth? Do you like the smell of Clinton’s ####, cause you’re all looking like your noses have been lodged up there as if you’re longing for that sense of glory that Clinton wasn’t even responsible for. If you want to give Clinton that, you’ll have to give Bush 10x more credit than he’s already been given by his own party for his work that he did with Kennedy on Education. All Clinton did was let the Republican controlled Congress do what they wanted to do, and this deserves all the praising words he’s always adorned with? Please. He just sat there fattening himself on the pleasures of his power, nothing was done on his part that was actually for the surplus the Republican’s created when they “balanced” the “budget”. He just didn’t put in any vetoes.

You’re all so trigger happy on reporting how much the war costs, and yet for some wacky reason, you’re going to assume that we’re going to #### our guys and girls in the ass when it really matters. Nope, not this President. That’d be a Clinton (Somalia, and yeah, after they whooped our asses, Clinton turned tail and ran while our boys were dragged through the streets…great leader, solid focus and determination to see things through) or Kerry (voting for war, then voting against the funding for the troops, regardless of what his reasoning was (probably just trying to establish a strong Liberal base), you don’t do that to the troops… if they’re already there, (being a former military man, he should know best) you make sure as #### that they have what they need… disgusting) move.

You’re entirely correct, we should have been able to have a clearer picture of the events that unfolded on 9/11 before they changed our world forever. Maybe you should ask Kerry and Gore, two men who’ve made careers at slicing our intelligence to ribbons, why we didn’t know more about it? They’d probably give you a big old song and dance about unused “staplers”, and how they weren’t needed… even though while they were doing it, Mr. Bin Laden was amassing strength, believers, and courage to carry out his plans. You’d think that while our embassies, our battle ship, our troops, our civilians were being attacked, our government would want to build up our intelligence agencies—instead of tear them down? Weird sense of logic you Liberals have…

Why do you think you’re qualified to say that 9/11 was so insignificant, so unimportant that you seem to have forgotten it happened? I’m almost at the point where I’m wishing they’ll attack us again, that way you people might wake up and smell the fuckin’ coffee. Then I remind myself that one of the loves of my life almost died on that day, and that nothing is worth swaying your tiny little minds. If you refuse to accept it, I hope that when you’re off on a trip abroad (you know, in France), that you have a sharp brush with these people you’re underestimating so drastically. You’ve completely under-cut the significance of the problem that is posed by these fanatics. Let’s hope that Karma plays a role in this, and that when they do strike again, it’s in your home town or city. Wouldn’t that be fair, or right?

“Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer”

What does that mean to you? When you know of an enemy, and his/her intentions, then you can asses the threat. When you have someone like Saddam, who for years killed his own people with the weapons “he never had”, a person who blatantly pisses on international orders, what are you do to? If you have someone who’s lying to you, to your face, especially when they’ve repeatedly lied to you, wouldn’t you respect the threat that they posed, and be cautious of them? We know about North Korea, and we have limited control of them (via China, we’re the biggest consumer on the planet, who would want to lose trading rights with us?), but Saddam was buying interest in the UN.. and the sanctions against him were failing. So, you either let this guy slowly grow, or strike him down when it’s easiest. “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure” Or, we could do the same thing Gore and Clinton did with Osama, and just let it boil until it bubbles over and we have a few more thousand people dead? Which is better?

Yes, I will say left-wing conspiracy, because you’re so blinded by hate and anger from the 2000 elections, that you’ll take any morsel that you’re hungry little fingers can grasp…and you nibble each individual molecule until you’re chewing your own nails and then fingertips. Tell me again why it was so necessary for Bush Sr. to go into Iraq? To finish “what he started”? That wasn’t our objective then, didn’t you know that? Saying that we’re there now to finish where we left off, suggests that we were there the first time purposely. Hmm, unless my brief knowledge of the subject fails me, Saddam was trying to invade the surrounding countries (namely, Saudi Arabia) and we were called upon to expel him… wasn’t that why we were there? Ah, I’m sure we were there then for oil, and then, by some stroke of evil genius… decided to turn back and stage an 8 year Democrat Presidency only to come back and do it later on? So, what you’re saying is that Bush Jr. has more courage than his father? Are you complimenting him? I just must be confused…

At least I’ll admit that Bush isn’t the smartest guy alive, and that he isn’t a great speaker. He may have had some crazy days in College, and some of the points in Moore’s movie make my eye-brows raise up a bit in shock. But, as they say, “to choose the lesser of two evils” is really what we have to do. Right now I am concerned with our security, because you can’t create a good omelette if you’re eggshell is cracked long before you go to put you’re apron on. And that’s what you guys want to do, you want a perfect utopia here in America even if it means that we’re open to terrorist attacks. If our people are expendable, fine, vote for Kerry. That’s how I see it.

We are a free nation, and if you want to live in a place that takes blood money, like France or Germany, then move there. By implementing Socialism, like you all want to (which, if you’d look at the youth of the nation, you’d see that it would never work), you effectively gain more control over the governed populous. We are a free nation. We were not founded on those principals.

Keep chewing on whatever you can find, soon you won’t have fingers to type, and I won’t have to read your mindless dribble.

EDIT: BTW, the ironic thing, is that the entire time I’ve been writing this, I’ve been listening to Eminem’s “Mosh”... which, if you’ve heard it, you might laugh 😛

BTW, ORBJ, I congratulate you on your courage for starting this thread, but you’re wasting your time. These Liberals (even though I have a special place in my heart for SJ 😛), are like any other yellow-dog-Democrats. They’re clutching Fahrenheit 9/11’s screenplay to their chests as if it were a bible, and you know they’re desperate because their knuckles turned white long ago. So, just save your rational discussion for after the election.. it might be stomach-able for them then. God willing, Bush will be our President for another four years 😛

One more thing

If you guys really love Clinton so damn much, why do you want Kerry to win? Don’t you know that the Clinton’s want Kerry to lose so that Hilary will become the first female Presidential candidate in History? You seem confused…

I don’t have time right now to answer that entire response, but I’d like to say a few things.

I live in New York City.  The day of the attacks, my father was in the World Trade Center.  He almost did not make it out.  My best friend’s father never came home.  They had to have a funeral without the body.  My father’s best friend perished in the attacks.  So when you attack me, please don’t presume that I don’t know what I am talking about.  Don’t tell me that I “under-cut the significance of the problem”.  It _was_ in my city, and I did not think it was fair.  But do you think it fair for Bush and his administration to use this as an excuse to scare us into submission?  Tell me what exactly 9/11 has to do with our current situation?  Especially since the only time it is mentioned is when Bush needs a way to incorporate all of the “terrorism” that exists in the world.  Wake up and smell the coffee.  Our world has been plagued with “terrorism” for way longer than before 9/11. 

Secondly, I have never seen Farenheit 9/11, nor have I ever EVER said that I support Michael Moore.  In fact, if you actually took the time to be less close-minded, you’d know that most Liberals do not support Moore and they think that he is as much of a propagandist as Conservatives do.

Also, I’d like to ask you, in all seriousness, if you’re enlisted in the army.  If not, why?  You obviously support the war if you support Bush.  But obviously, you’re not gung-ho enough about it to acutally put _your_ life on the line and fight for causes that you are so passionate about defending. 

So please, before you attack me and what I believe, why not get your facts straight?  I never said being Conservative was a bad thing.  I certainly do not appreciate you attacking me for being Liberal.

Please read here: this post was made a while ago by a friend of mine on forums I moderate.

http://www.zeropaid.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=240992&postcount=11

Well he is partially responsible for the TAKS test… People that live in Texas know what I am talking about…  Im tired, so I can’t really make an intelligent argument at the moment.  :think:

I’m from Texas, but I’ve never taken the TAKS test. My sisters have, however, and they think it’s the most retarded thing ever

[quote author=“Andreux”]I’m from Texas, but I’ve never taken the TAKS test. My sisters have, however, and they think it’s the most retarded thing ever

I never took that. Only the TASS test.  TASS was a stupid test and so is the TAKS all it does is that it forces teachers to “teach” according to the test.  I remember teachers would cling on to old tests for dear life and using it alot more than the actual textbooks.  All for what? To get a stupid ribbon saying so and so school did good on so and so test.

[quote author=“omcantu”][quote author=“Andreux”]I’m from Texas, but I’ve never taken the TAKS test. My sisters have, however, and they think it’s the most retarded thing ever

I never took that. Only the TASS test.  TASS was a stupid test and so is the TAKS all it does is that it forces teachers to “teach” according to the test.  I remember teachers would cling on to old tests for dear life and using it alot more than the actual textbooks.  All for what? To get a stupid ribbon saying so and so school did good on so and so test.

Ohhhhhhh, TAAS was so retarded….... I always got, like, in the top 5 percent on those things. They were so damn easy, and yeah, I thought it was *so* stupid how the teachers would teach according to those tests all the time. Ugh!! Education president MY ASS. Teach us something CHALLENGING

first off, where’s orbj when he said he’d be here? heh.
secondly… why does ever conservative lecture have to do with 9 ####### 11… my god.

seriously what is it with you people? Is that all you and Bush have to go on? oh wait… don’t answer. we’ll all think what we want to.
why do you think that the RNC had a HUGE poster behind the stage that had “September 11th, 2001” written on it.
It’s honestly the funniest thing a president has ever done. He used the pinnacle POS moment in his president that pointed out how ###### he was doing and foreshadowed the further downfall of our country. Sure Bush and his cabinet could try and shift blame on the Clinton administration, but that doesn’t work. That’s like blaming the previous owner of your used car when it breaks down even when the guy offers to tell you when it’s gonna break down.

I’d like everyone to name one good thing that George W. Bush has done as president, that doesn’t involve 9/11 or Iraq. because
A. Iraq and Saddam have no ties to Al-Qaeda. Saddam was rubbing shoulders more often with the US than he was with Osama Bin Laden.
B. Even if we did think that Iraq legitimately was involved with 9/11 we had no evidence to rush in. What was it? First it was “Saddam harbored the terrorists” which we all know isn’t true. about 80% of the terrorists came from Saudi Arabia, but of course we couldn’t attack there. The past 5-7 presidents have had too close of ties with them. Next it was “They’ve got WMD’s.” whoops, guess that whole CIA thing telling bush that iraq was too poor to produce WMD’s and was only hiding from UN officials because they were defending themselves from their neighboring Iran was right… oh well, the CIA is about as credible as two leading news sources (as George and Dick like to express). Third it was “we’re liberatin’ the #### outta those towelheads.” I can’t wait until liberating doesn’t mean killing 12,000+ iraqi civilians for doing nothing and ruining water and power supplies to entire cities while you rape and pillage the land.

So what are we left with? oh that’s right. bush’s wallet.

Watch the Daily show at 7 tonight on comedy central. Bush doesn’t even realize he has control over his cabinet and says they make bad decisions. what a ####### dumbass. but then again, he is representing half out country. so what does that say about us?

if you’re still an undecided voter please shoot yourself for not being able to choose between such radical candidates.

Why doesn’t anyone who brings up Iraq ever bring up North Korea which probably has 6-8 nuclear weapons? Maybe it’s because Kim Jong-il totally own3d us on that one. Simply because Clinton’s method’s were working, Bush didn’t want to replicate it. When North Korea blasts South Korea and Japan you tell me who the bigger threat was: Iraq or North Korea? I’ll see your ass in Canada.

[quote author=“jbeana”]
Why are we unhappy with Bush?  Because he’s focused on everything BUT the economy.  Because millions of jobs have been lost.  Because he’s racked up the largest deficit this country’s ever seen.  I know you’re going to say that figures have shown that 1.9 million jobs have been created in the past few months, but when you look at the overall picture, it’s still a net loss.

And?Kerry himself admitted that the president has extremely little, if not no control over the jobs created and lost (remember the debates?)

Iraq

Saddam Hussein was a threat. It’s like… Would you rather be bombed, when you know you could immediately remove the threat?

Patriot Act

This is a no brainer for me. It might just because I can’t see a lot of the other side of the argument.

Would you rather be safe, and have the government know more about you? Or do you prefer being vulnerable, and know that the guy next door could be a terrorist, and the government couldn’t do anything about it?

North Korea

You see, there’s a whole lot more to the story. First of all, that could be an Iraq: we highly suspect that they have nukes, but no solid proof.
Secondly, North Korea has missiles. I’m pretty sure just about every country in the world does. They’ve got 11 or so missile bases, with missiles aimed at South Korea. In short, if we were to invade, Kim Jong-il could kill millions of South Koreans.

Please understand that I do not support everything that Bush does.

I disagree with many things he does. Stem cell research. Drilling in the Alaska National Wildlife Reserve. Gay Marriage. Nobody really provides a good option, except Ralph Nader. And he’s a joke, which is in fact really sad.  THIS IS NOT A DEMOCRACY, PEOPLE!

In fact, let me elaborate:

Gay Marriage:

I mean geez! Get a life, people! MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS! Why not let people be happy?!?! Does it hurt you? No! The divorce rate is at 50%. That is sad, pathetic. Gay people can’t do much worse!

Stem Cell Research:

It could cure a bunch of diseases. Alzheimer’s. Diabetes. Maybe even cancer. Why not sacrifice a few to save millions?

The Election:

This is sad. In France and in Europe, people always are fascinated with America. As soon as I talk to someone, they go:

Do you like Bush?!?!? Why? Clinton was good. He wasn’t? Oh, Bush must be good. Clinton was bad.

They don’t see how things work here. They think it’s a democracy. It’s not. Only a Republican or Democrat will be elected. Schwarzenegger can’t be elected. Even though he has a green card, and is Governor of one of the biggest states… “If I vote for Nader, then I’m wasting my vote.”

No, you’re not! That’s what a democracy is! You vote for who you want!

Just my take on the political spectrum.

Am I not here?

And as to the daily show… That’s one of my favorite shows! The thing is , it’s a FAKE news show! Jon Stewart is hilarious, weather or not I agree with what he has to say.

[quote author=“jbeana”]I don’t have time right now to answer that entire response, but I’d like to say a few things.

I live in New York City.  The day of the attacks, my father was in the World Trade Center.  He almost did not make it out.  My best friend’s father never came home.  They had to have a funeral without the body.  My father’s best friend perished in the attacks.  So when you attack me, please don’t presume that I don’t know what I am talking about.  Don’t tell me that I “under-cut the significance of the problem”.  It _was_ in my city, and I did not think it was fair.  But do you think it fair for Bush and his administration to use this as an excuse to scare us into submission?  Tell me what exactly 9/11 has to do with our current situation?  Especially since the only time it is mentioned is when Bush needs a way to incorporate all of the “terrorism” that exists in the world.  Wake up and smell the coffee.  Our world has been plagued with “terrorism” for way longer than before 9/11. 

Secondly, I have never seen Farenheit 9/11, nor have I ever EVER said that I support Michael Moore.  In fact, if you actually took the time to be less close-minded, you’d know that most Liberals do not support Moore and they think that he is as much of a propagandist as Conservatives do.

Also, I’d like to ask you, in all seriousness, if you’re enlisted in the army.  If not, why?  You obviously support the war if you support Bush.  But obviously, you’re not gung-ho enough about it to acutally put _your_ life on the line and fight for causes that you are so passionate about defending. 

So please, before you attack me and what I believe, why not get your facts straight?  I never said being Conservative was a bad thing.  I certainly do not appreciate you attacking me for being Liberal.

I’ve actually been to the Recruiter’s office, and am seriously considering it. I’m just not sure which Branch is best for me.

Anyway, I’ve obviously offended you, and I apologize for that. I didn’t notice the, “New York” after Location.

You really ought to watch F-9/11, most of your argument is right in tune with what is said in that movie. This whole, “scare us into submission” ######## that Sum 41, Greenday, Eminem, and others have bought into and repackaged is straight from the movie. So when you say you’ve never seen it, I find it just a wee bit difficult to believe you.

Everytime I turn to Fox or any other station, all I hear is spin. From both sides. Most of the Liberals aren’t stupid enough to pull from Michael Moore’s pages (granted), but occasionally you get one or two that do. You can find his conspiracy theories laying just beneath the surface of you folks, it’s what stokes the fire. That notion that, “Maybe Bush is this evil man and my world does make sense! Look, here’s why!”

So, you hate Bush for beating Gore (oh I know, unfairly… damn electoral college… stop complaining about it, change it), and you’ve been out for blood ever since. If Bush says one thing, he’s wrong and you say the opposite of whatever he’s said. You’re so fixated on replacing Bush, that you’ve selected the worst guy for the job. At least Dean appeared as if he wasn’t your normal politician, which (at first) made me believe he was honest. You should have chosen Lieberman as your candidate, but you chose Kerry because of a New York Times poll that said he could beat Bush. So, go off the deep end, we’ll miss your passionate ideals that could have potentially changed the world for the better. Hopefully on the way down, you’ll realize that not everyone can be talked into being a good person, and that evil does exist in this world.

I’m sorry that attacking your political bias has offended you, but what can you expect? You have over 2/3’s of this site pulling for the Donkey, and of the > 1/3 who aren’t, even less speak up. It’s almost as if for every one of us, there’s ten of you to chip in your two cents. When I go off on Liberals, it’s not so much in the direction of one individual.

By the way, you didn’t touch on what I said about Clinton, Gore, or Kerry? Why is that?

ThisSunAlsoRises
When Bush took office in January, he set about doing the five things he campaigned on. Within the first hundred days, a President isn’t really expected to do anything but travel the world and accept congratulations from the leaders of the world. Bush didn’t really do that. He set straight away to get his tax plan across, because, as we all know, he was in the midst of a recession that Clinton handed him. He also worked with Kennedy to try and work on an Education plan, but that was fucked with in Congress (after Kennedy bad-mouthed it). It’s at this point that I think Bush saw that he wasn’t going to be able to unite both sides of the isle, unless of course he decided to shoot himself and every Republican in the Chain of Command. So, that campaign promise was left unfulfilled, but he worked on energy initiatives (1.7 billion over five years to the development of Hydrogen Fuel Cells), and is still trying to get things done in Healthcare.

If you don’t agree with him, vote for Kerry. Personally, I could never vote for someone who is as unsure of himself or what direction he truly wants this country to go in. I’ll say it again, I really wish you guys had given Lieberman the chance… too bad :( I’d vote for Nader way before I’d ever vote for Kerry, and I don’t know jack #### about what he wants to do. I just know that you’ve selected the wrong person, and that’s truly unfortunate.

I personally hope that Bush wins the popular and Kerry wins the electoral because honestly, no one is willing to change this country to a true democracy. If this happened than maybe there could be a bi-partisan effort to get rid of the electoral college. I wish I didn’t have to register in a different state so my vote my count because the local politics of my home town are important to me but I felt that registering in a presidential swing state was more important.

[quote author=“ORBJ”][quote author=“jbeana”]
Why are we unhappy with Bush?  Because he’s focused on everything BUT the economy.  Because millions of jobs have been lost.  Because he’s racked up the largest deficit this country’s ever seen.  I know you’re going to say that figures have shown that 1.9 million jobs have been created in the past few months, but when you look at the overall picture, it’s still a net loss.

And?Kerry himself admitted that the president has extremely little, if not no control over the jobs created and lost (remember the debates?)

Iraq

Saddam Hussein was a threat. It’s like… Would you rather be bombed, when you know you could immediately remove the threat?

Patriot Act

This is a no brainer for me. It might just because I can’t see a lot of the other side of the argument.

Would you rather be safe, and have the government know more about you? Or do you prefer being vulnerable, and know that the guy next door could be a terrorist, and the government couldn’t do anything about it?

North Korea

You see, there’s a whole lot more to the story. First of all, that could be an Iraq: we highly suspect that they have nukes, but no solid proof.
Secondly, North Korea has missiles. I’m pretty sure just about every country in the world does. They’ve got 11 or so missile bases, with missiles aimed at South Korea. In short, if we were to invade, Kim Jong-il could kill millions of South Koreans.

Please understand that I do not support everything that Bush does.

I disagree with many things he does. Stem cell research. Drilling in the Alaska National Wildlife Reserve. Gay Marriage. Nobody really provides a good option, except Ralph Nader. And he’s a joke, which is in fact really sad.  THIS IS NOT A DEMOCRACY, PEOPLE!

In fact, let me elaborate:

Gay Marriage:

I mean geez! Get a life, people! MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS! Why not let people be happy?!?! Does it hurt you? No! The divorce rate is at 50%. That is sad, pathetic. Gay people can’t do much worse!

Stem Cell Research:

It could cure a bunch of diseases. Alzheimer’s. Diabetes. Maybe even cancer. Why not sacrifice a few to save millions?

The Election:

This is sad. In France and in Europe, people always are fascinated with America. As soon as I talk to someone, they go:

Do you like Bush?!?!? Why? Clinton was good. He wasn’t? Oh, Bush must be good. Clinton was bad.

They don’t see how things work here. They think it’s a democracy. It’s not. Only a Republican or Democrat will be elected. Schwarzenegger can’t be elected. Even though he has a green card, and is Governor of one of the biggest states… “If I vote for Nader, then I’m wasting my vote.”

No, you’re not! That’s what a democracy is! You vote for who you want!

Just my take on the political spectrum.

The president and his cabinet have direct control over the economy (with taxes and wages) and the economy directly affects job rates. only 144,000 jobs have been created after the 1.2 million were lost during the recession. Except when neither candidate will address the issue because thehy both have no way of solving it, it’s obvious this will always be a problem. caused by republicans and unsolvable by democrats.

Iraq: I don’t get your logic…. that’s like a parent punishing their kid on thursday for going out and drinking on friday…  especially when we had intelligence saying that Iraq didn’t have any wmd’s. I agree the Iraq had the possibility of being a threat. but it never has been and wasn’t in 2003. We went to ware for no real progressive reason and we don’t know what we’re doing.

Patriot Act: I went through it with my criminal law prof and he pointed out how many loopholes and flaws in the bill allowed the government to even kill people they THINK are terrorists. It allows the government to arrest anyone for any reason involving national security and hold then without any rights, even to a lawyer. the miranda rights or waived.

North Korea: what are facts when they’re not correct… You say it could be another Iraq? what do you mean? like we storm in there to get contracting rights to north korean land under false accusations of weapons?
we KNOW North Korea has about 10 nuclear WMD’s because that’s where all of their money goes. They have numerous silos that US/UN officials have visited and factories that North Korea claims to be enery plants. So why doesn’t the U.S. go into North Korea (or Iran, who’s leader said he was hoping George W. would get re-elected because he knew Iran wouldn’t be attacked) when we know what’s going on? Because, we have nothing to gain from it. The administration now and past administrations do not have the safety of the American public as a top priority. It’s the same reason we haven’t rushed into Sudan to stop the 70,000+ death genocide going on. We wouldn’t gain land rights, contracting rights, our economy wouldn’t grow, and the Sudanese people would have nothing to offer us for our help.
Kim Jong-il couldn’t kill millions of South Koreans. In case you haven’t been following the news, one of the issues (at least here in Washington state) is the numerous over-funded missle programs that have created hundreds of anti-warhead/anti-nuke missles that could easily stop any and all missles launched by Kim Jong-il. Besides, he would have nothing to gain from nuking South Korea, he knows he would just be wasting his billions of dollars worth of funding.

even with all of this, i can still respect that you have your own views about different subjects and aren’t told what to think. It’s good that you can see both sides of this and realize that not everything either candidate does is true or good. Kerry does not believe gays should be allowed to marry, only have civil unions. The only reason he didn’t Yea the partial-birth abortion ban bill was because it didn’t address the health of the mother.
and the whole thing about the U.S. being a democracy is ########, that i can agree with. If we were a true democracy, half the country wouldn’t dislike who’s in power, we’d have 2 presidents to represent everyone. Our republic that we have is fucked. if a senator gets 60% of the vote, they represent 100% of the people.
and you are throwing your vote away when you vote for nader. I had to write 5 page essay on why voting doesn’t matter and nader was part of my main thesis. Our system only allows the choice of 2 parties. On average there’s about 2 governors who are not a rep or dem ever term. voting for nader is pointless in this election, as he’s not on the ballot of at least 4 states that i know of.
and right now republicans are trying to get that bill passed that allows foreign citizens to run for presidency. However, the only way that arnold is governmentally, not morally. he’s pro-immigration, pro-choice, pro-gay rights. he’s about as republican as george bush is conservative.

You’re either voting for a douche bag or a turd sandwich.
The only reason i would vote for Kerry (i’m not voting) would be because i’ve seen how george bush runs the country and i’m not happy with it. right now, i really don’t care that kerry is reaching for demographics that obviously show he just does things to please the public like going hunting or talking to black people.

I wasn’t really implying that North Korea would bomb South Korea or anyone else (bit of embellishment on my part). What I’m trying to state is that realistically, North Korea should be top priority in terms of US security. It’s pretty clear that our little escapade in Iraq is only stirring more hatred and not quelling it.  The nuclear weapons are a great means of procurring whatever Kim Jong-il wants; basically the mother of all bargaining chips. If we had kept up the unilateral talks like Clinton did and China urges us to do, maybe they wouldn’t have the weapons. 

I’m glad you brought up Sudan because I was asking myself, “why the hell aren’t we doing anything about this?” about 8 months ago when I was reading “Genocide in Sudan Suspected” in the papers.  We’re only now getting around to doing something and it’s terribly slow and unorganized (basically sending Powell there for about 10 minutes and flying him back).  ThisSunAlsoRises makes a good point in that we don’t do anything, or very little, because it in no way benefits us. It’s the same reason we didn’t do anything in Ruwanda and it’s the same reason we won’t do anything in Uganda now.

It’s pathetic that we aren’t looking out for the good of the world or even ourselves.

Edit: Just to add. South Park was hilarious tonight. I liked watching PETA get shot up by Puff Daddy and the whole shebang about how votes don’t count. Very accurate.  :lol: