Here is a conversation with one of my most liberal friends. Hes an music snob (to clear up the CD reply). You dont have to read this to reply, but you should anyway.
[quote author=“my reply”][quote author=“the friends reply”][quote author=“my reply”][quote author=“a friend of mine”]
Today in the presidential debates, john kery completely won my heart over with his answer to the question about abortion. My heart melted in his hands and he took me away to a magical land of unicorns, muffin people, and happy trees. The question was from an pro-life woman who was wondering what he would do to make sure her tax dollars didn’t go towards the murder of embryos…or whatever. anyways, he said he respected her moral strength and emotion behind the question, said he was catholic, didn’t really like it either, but that he would be a leader of all of the people of america and that he couldn’t force his personal values onto everyone. he worded it better than i did. go vote, mother #######.
Abortion is the hardest subject to handle because there are so many fascets to it, and the taxation of it, etc. First question is where does life begin? Some argue its in the womb, some argue its out of it, I guess thats answered based on faith and/or science. A leader shouldn’t force his personal beliefs on others, thats very clear and I agree completely with that. But heres the thing, while a leader shouldn’t force their personal beliefs on the whole country, sacrificing whats best for it, should they tax the people that don’t believe in abortion? Wouldn’t you say that thats forcing others personal beliefs onto pro-lifers as well? Theres a balance somewhere, and I can’t take a firm stance on one side or the other yet. But yeah, just stuff that I’ve been thinking about lately.
but those same taxes that would apply to that group of people apply to them today, seeing as abortion isn’t illegal. Kerry didn’t state that a ban on partial birth abortion was going to be lifted, but he did state that he wouldn’t be raising taxes on the 200,000 and below income group. The people that dont’ believe in it should also realize that believing in abortion or not shouldn’t interfere with government and law. abortion is a personal issue that the individual woman has to deal with.
What I was trying to ask was, is it right that people have to pay for something they are strongly against? Would you want to pay for someone elses Yellowcard/ The Used/ Taking Back Sunday CD? Pro Choice, Pro Life whatever, Im not so sure that abortion should be government funded. At any rate, Im not trying to argue, just wanted to run through my thoughts, discuss, etc.
As for abortion, it’s always been my belief that a woman can make decisions regarding her own body and as a man I have no right to say what she can and cannot do. This is really easy for guys to get away with saying but for women this is a considerably different situation. The last decision I would ever want to make would be to keep or not to keep a child. I’ve known women that have had abortions and women who chose to keep the child. I can honestly say that those who had the child probably hurt themselves a lot more in terms of their education and financial future. It sounds like a shady thing to say but having a child as a teenager will most likely ruin your life. Perhaps it’s better to carry the child to term and then give it up for adoption but I know it would be hard, if not impossible, to separate with it.
For many the idea of abortion comes down to whether you believe life begins at conception, 3 weeks, 1 month, etc. It’s impossible to say and your religious background will most likely play a large role. Seeing as I have no religious input, I would guage to have or not to have the child based on the likelyhood of it having a good life. There are hundreds of questions to ask. How will this effect my life? Will others support me? Am I bringing this child into potentially poor future? Again, as a man I cannot answer these questions. I trust women know what they want to do and aren’t afraid of their choice. I consider myself pro-choice but if you’re pro-life I understand…just don’t blow up a planned parenthood (that’s really **** up).
I say we test the fk outta those stupid lil’ embryos, if it’ll produce a cure for cancer, diabetes, or other disease then I say we use those little buggers for all they are worth, what else are we gonna do, let them stay frozen forever?
[quote author=“Attica”]I say we test the fk outta those stupid lil’ embryos, if it’ll produce a cure for cancer, diabetes, or other disease then I say we use those little buggers for all they are worth, what else are we gonna do, let them stay frozen forever?
good point. and as for abortion, even if it is outlawed, women will still get it done. it will be in back alley clinics where they will most likely die. and also, the embryos will go to no use for research because it would be illegal.
[quote author=“mattmag”]as for abortion, even if it is outlawed, women will still get it done. it will be in back alley clinics where they will most likely die. and also, the embryos will go to no use for research because it would be illegal.
Just to play devil’s advocate here (trust me, I’m for stem cell research), just ‘cause people *still* do things that are illegal doesn’t mean it should be legalized. People still kill—it doesn’t mean murder should be legal 😛
[quote author=“Andreux”][quote author=“mattmag”]as for abortion, even if it is outlawed, women will still get it done. it will be in back alley clinics where they will most likely die. and also, the embryos will go to no use for research because it would be illegal.
Just to play devil’s advocate here (trust me, I’m for stem cell research), just ‘cause people *still* do things that are illegal doesn’t mean it should be legalized. People still kill—it doesn’t mean murder should be legal 😛
that wasn’t my point. the point is HOW they do it, not IF they do it. I said they will get it done in back-alley clinics where the woman is likely to die or get diseased from an unsterilized instrument.
my thoughts on abortion: its one of those debates, like gun control and the death penalty, that no matter how long you deabte about it, it gets nowhere, and everyone just agrees to disagree.
[quote author=“antman22”]my thoughts on abortion: its one of those debates, like gun control and the death penalty, that no matter how long you deabte about it, it gets nowhere, and everyone just agrees to disagree.
yea, thats true. we should stop talking about this so we can do more important things. We aren’t going to change anyone’s mind no matter what we say.
[quote author=“mattmag”][quote author=“antman22”]my thoughts on abortion: its one of those debates, like gun control and the death penalty, that no matter how long you deabte about it, it gets nowhere, and everyone just agrees to disagree.
yea, thats true. we should stop talking about this so we can do more important things. We aren’t going to change anyone’s mind no matter what we say.
Yeah but its good to get new perspectives on things, I think. Arguing is stupid, discussing is productive.
What I think is that abortion should be influenced by different factors for example:
If the girl was raped and she goes under exams and tests out postive for rape the an abortion should be done. However, if the girl wans’t raped then she has to keep the baby(unless she qulifies under the “exceptions”). Its only her fault that she did the dew and got pregnant.
Exceptions to second part of above statement:
If a girl can prove that she and her family are too poor to care for the child and having him will lead him nowhere for the baby then abortion should be allowed for that person.
If the girl and her family have a good amount of money then she must keep the baby. There is no sense in not letting a human being born because you dont want to deal with your own mistakes.
This is one of my theories and would of course only apply to girls under 18. Over 18 girls can have other sets of rules.
My belief is that no one should have a say in whether a life that is trying to thrive should be born or shouldnt be, unless it is an EXTREME case. I am talking, something that puts the mother in physical danger, or a situation where the baby has some very very serious complications (not mental retardation, I mean life-threatening) where it is just likely not to survive. If a woman is raped, give the baby up for adoption if you don’t want it. In a situation like that, the baby is innocent.
However, that is MY BELIEF, and I dont think I have the right to force my belief on others. I also believe the government shouldnt either. Therefore, while I am pro life, it doesnt mean that I think everyone should fall under that mentality. I have the right to have that as my belief, and others have the same right to be prochoice.
But I am anti-abortion under almost all circumstances. I think its a woman’s decision, not mine. But If I were a woman, it would take a whole lot for me to have an abortion, if at all. (I am not a woman, so of course I understand that I am not, nor will I ever be in that position, and I do not know that perspective.)
Some believe life begins at conception and some believe that life begins at birth (when a child is not completely dependent on its mother). Now this belief differs between faith, and science, etc… But while my belief that life begins at conception is based on my faith, other people do not have this same belief. I also dont think that beliefs should be forced on anyone. So its up to the woman’s conviction with herself and God (if she believes) to make that decision on her own.
Now, under no circumstances do I think that there should be Government funded abortion. If people had to pay taxes for other people’s abortions, then that is beliefs being forced upon them.
I think that if people believe life begins at birth, and abortion is ok, or a form of birth control, or whatever.. They should set up foundations for funding abortion. This goes the same with embryotic stem cell research. If you believe in embryotic stem cell research, I think that it should be funded by foundations set up by the people that believe in it. Otherwise, taxation on that, for the people that don’t believe in abortion, would be in a way having them condone it, and in a sense forcing beliefs once again.
I want to think this through as much as I can, as I do everything else. So if you disagree, I’d like to hear your perspective on this.
1. The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter, manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.
2. The characteristic state or condition of a living organism.
Sounds like life (as it is defined in the Dictionary) begins at conception.
