anytime...I hope I gave a little insight..and thanks as well for having an open mind...Im fascinated by other cultures/musical genres...its good to see someone else with the same open mind...

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:) Thanks, CharleyBrown

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yeah, Lady Pink is incredible...she was a true pioneer and an incredible artist...there are so many other great graf artists...I will have to pull all my textbooks out and give some more examples... don't get me wrong tho, there are some real ugly grafs, people doing it just to be menaces/thugs...but those that do it for the love of it...they produce some AMAZING works!

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[quote author="Andreux"]So I'll only understand the difference between rap MUSIC and hip hop MUSIC when I actually live the lifestyle? Sounds tough.. And about the grafitti/breakdancing in hip hop music: is it what the singers/rappers describe? Like, if there's a lyric talking about spray-painting on a wall, is that how grafitti is portrayed in hip hop music? :( That sounds sad about corporate America taking over hip hop. Think there's still some saving grace to the genre? Or do you think it'll one day become as mainstream all the other Top 40 hits? :o I don't think you can deny that some hip hop songs have already become Top 40 hits, right?[/quote] you can understand it without living it, but it takes time I guess... people will run around and tell you that some guy you've never heard of is hip hop MUSIC because of that, you've never heard of him...thats not the case. Nas consistently goes platinum, and is very much a Hip Hop Musician...he makes Hip Hop MUSIC...its really a breakdown of what they say...I posted some lyrics earlier of true hip hop MUSIC...emphasizing the music as opposed to the culture as a whole... as for Graffiti, its stance in hip hop can't truly truly be seen through the music with the exception of the feel of it, and occasionally in videos and lyrics... you're best bet to check out some graffiti is hitting up the local subway station ;-) j/k as for corporate america taking over...it was only a matter of time, they have done that with every genre of music really...take something with growing support and make it trendy...I have a feeling EMO will take the same route soon...it only takes a few artists to really gain a huge supporting audience...a la Run DMC to Notorious B.I.G. and Pac to Jay Z... I think its growth is beautiful, but with everything in life, there are some downsides. I think Hip Hop in the mainstream audience will always be present, but I think its immense popularity in the white 12 y/o girl audience will soon disappear...though my little sister was doing the rockaway, a-town stomp, and thunder clap the other day, who knew! lol... what is sad about Hip Hop's growth is that it had so much potential..it could have spread its true message to a nation of those who don't understand, or look down upon it, but instead, its growth transcended into stereotypical bubble gum pop that has entirely neglected what its true purpose was. There are some top 40 hits of hip hop MUSIC today, and there have been for some time...Juicy, Dear Mama, I Can, Song Cry, Made You Look, Jesus Walks, Thru the Wire to name a few...and I think there may be more to come, so all is not bad...its just most tend to focus on the bubble gum corporate influenced garbage... I suggest you check out Little Brother's first album, the Listening, or their new album coming soon called The Minstrel Show! Anyways, as you can see, you don't have to be a thug to understand or even love the music...I'm as educated as they come...with 2 bachelor's, working towards a master's...and I consider myself hip hop to the bone marrow ;-)

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Just Googled some images of Lady Pink graffiti: [img]http://www.graffiti.org/nyc/q4b.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.graffiti.org/nyc/q8b.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.graffiti.org/nyc/q3b.jpg[/img] :o Wow, that's some good art... One of the things I absolutely loved when I went to France was all the graffiti I got to see. I wish I could have gone to Italy 'cause I hear they have awesome graffiti art there too. I remember just staring at the art when I was on the train and being like, "Wow, that so pretty.." lol

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So I'll only understand the difference between rap MUSIC and hip hop MUSIC when I actually live the lifestyle? Sounds tough.. And about the grafitti/breakdancing in hip hop music: is it what the singers/rappers describe? Like, if there's a lyric talking about spray-painting on a wall, is that how grafitti is portrayed in hip hop music? :( That sounds sad about corporate America taking over hip hop. Think there's still some saving grace to the genre? Or do you think it'll one day become as mainstream all the other Top 40 hits? :o I don't think you can deny that some hip hop songs have already become Top 40 hits, right?

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to add on further...there really isn't a hip hop music and rap music...they are essentially one and the same... there is however, a corporate controlled and mainstream media influenced rap, and a true to the roots of the hip hop culture rap... however, in the end, it does come down, like in any genre to whats good music and bad music. J-Kwon, Nelly, Chingy, Bow Wow, Lil Romeo...these guys are your mainstream media influenced... Joe Budden, Scarface, Outkast, Killer Mike, Bishop Lamont, Crooked I, Tupac Shakur, Nas, Jay Z, Rakim, Kool G. Rap, Big Daddy Kane, Pete Rock, Grafh, Saigon, Common, The Roots, Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Kanye West, Little Brother and the Justus League, Dilated Peoples, etc...these guys are your true to hip hop culture... if you want to research graff artists, check out Lady Pink...she's one of the pioneers for female graffers! and for B-Boying/Breakdancing...check out Crazy Legs...

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[quote author="Andreux"]Okay, so now I have a new question. I've learned that rap is one of the four elements, and hip hop is apparently the encompassing culture. That's fine, I can understand that, and it makes sense to me. My question now is: What kind of MUSIC is hip hop? What kind of music actually entails all the four elements (rap, grafitti, etc.)? I dunno about y'all, but I can't really see grafitti and breakdancing when I listen to a "hip hop" song (whatever that is) on the radio. I can identify rap MUSIC and hip hop CULTURE, but I can't distinguish between rap MUSIC and hip hop MUSIC. I guess that was my original question too, but I didn't know the proper definitions of the two terms. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated, as I am trying to become thuglier and thuglier with each passing day :)[/quote] THUG LIFE

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[quote author="Andreux"]Okay, so now I have a new question. I've learned that rap is one of the four elements, and hip hop is apparently the encompassing culture. That's fine, I can understand that, and it makes sense to me. My question now is: What kind of MUSIC is hip hop? What kind of music actually entails all the four elements (rap, grafitti, etc.)? I dunno about y'all, but I can't really see grafitti and breakdancing when I listen to a "hip hop" song (whatever that is) on the radio. I can identify rap MUSIC and hip hop CULTURE, but I can't distinguish between rap MUSIC and hip hop MUSIC. I guess that was my original question too, but I didn't know the proper definitions of the two terms. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated, as I am trying to become thuglier and thuglier with each passing day :)[/quote] you don't have to be a thug to enjoy hip hop music...thats another one of those mainstream media portrayals of hip hop culture. The reason for which you can't see graffiti in the mainstream hip pop/top 40 hits is because its not there...but if you catch Common's new single, you'll see it if u really read close and understand. The elements portion of hip hop has somewhat disappeared due to the white corporate control of the music itself. Hip Hop was intended to spark a movement, it was the voice of the Black Man when he didn't have a voice. As for breaking, it is still very prevalent today, and while it did separate from Rap Music for a time, it is coming back...a la You Got Served (stupid movie, GREAT exhibition of dance!), all in all, Hip Hop Dance is basically the offspring of the old breaking days...and while the old school breaking is still around, it has evolved... To really understand hip hop, you have to live it, which some of you may not want to do and thus may not understand it, but its important that you don't bash it if you don't understand... Hip Hop's roots are in the struggle...originally the struggle of the Black Man, though it has grown tremendously worldwide to the struggle of both men and women in the lower social classes. The problem is it increased in popularity so much that it attracted the heads of record labels...white corporate upper class america, who saw its growing popularity, and thus, got their hands into it...

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